The following is a letter sent to me from Panhandle Rancher and is being published with his permission. I inquired with him about a video regarding the Finicum traffic stop and subsequent shooting. Some minor editing has been done for security reasons.
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JR,
There is a lot about that shooting that is troubling. I hope there will be hard lessons learned. Finicum was overcome with unbridled anger which sadly led to his demise. If that was his wife in the back seat [Rourke: It was not his wife in the back of the truck], she should have put away the cell phone and instead tried to calm her husband. It also appeared that she shoved her daughter out of the car first, a most unmotherly behavior.
In more urban settings, there are usually more options for dealing with felony car stops. At the xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxx where I taught briefly, the instructors set up a novel and generally unwinable (is that a word?) car stop for each graduating class. One of the more innovative solutions was to call for the FD hook and ladder which had a remote controlled water cannon mounted to ladder’s end. They manipulated the ladder/water cannon to knock out a side glass and then literally washed the occupants from the car, a surefire non-lethal and terminal end to the event. The trouble is what happens in the heat of the moment – when passions flare, reason runs. I can’t tell you how hard it is to hold fire when one hears gunshots all around. I have an anecdote about the sad end of a bunch of serial jewelry store robbers sometime if you are interested. It is most unsettling to end a sudden gunfight and realize the slide is locked back with weapon empty – and not recall firing a single round. Most one on one gunfights end in a second and at close range.
Fortunately many can go their entire career without firing a round in battle, others however are vexed to end up shooting time and time again. This I do know, after surviving that first gun fight, one becomes sudden and accurate. From that point on, focus shifts to having the finest, most dependable, and most lethal equipment allowed, when walking into that valley of the shadow of death. My life certainly changed and probably not for the best. By career’s end, I found myself with a collection of ‘trophy’ photos of the slain – seemingly without conscious effort. I ran across the box of these when moving and can report them shredded. Not something to be proud of, not something I would want grandchildren to see, but even now in my 60s, you can count on me to be sudden and accurate – and to remember each and every situation in vivid detail, often revisited nightly in dreams.
The wife said it seemed to her as if the cops just wanted to kill Finicum. If that officer hadn’t run from behind the barricade ending up in front of speeding truck, then no officer’s lives would have been endangered and there would have been no rationale to shoot. I can see no action being taken against the officers (other than the HRT agents who have much to explain), but can also see a lot of training points on how to better contain a dynamic situation and control escalation. Want to bet the FBI was blocking cell phone coverage from their airplane?
The wife and I hadn’t been married long when one evening she likely saved someone’s life and me from going to jail. Another case of unbridled anger but I had a wife that defused the situation rather than focusing on her cell phone. Fortunately I have learned to better govern my emotions.
I didn’t see Finicum reaching for a weapon and I watched it twice. I was likely too busy reliving private personal horror.
I am most troubled with the way the whole event was managed; ending up in an unconfined felony car stop. It reminded me of the way I learned how to set up combat area security checkpoint stops. Have a few troops at a barricade to effect the stop, ID, and search if necessary, and then have a battle tank just out of sight around a curve or behind cover – a sure end for any who run the stop. I find the whole Finicum event, chilling.
Panhandle Rancher
How the hell can the officers justify all the shooting after Finicum was down? I didn’t hear a single shot come from the vehicle but there were lots of incoming shots. They obviously knew there were children in the back seat! I am usually a supporter of law enforcement but this is just over the top. Someone needs to have their ass handed to them over this mess!
TXM1836 – those shots you hear are less lethal rounds as PHR mentioned cracking and breaking the windows. Remember they had no idea who or what was in the truck and were trying to get rid of the glass so they could see in the back of the truck.
Horrible job by law enforcement. No reason this had to happen however I think mistakes were made on both sides.
I suspect the subsequent shooting was in order to break the (probably tinted) window glass on the truck. I think I hear an officer announce ‘shot,’ just before each subsequent round. I also recall a comment from inside the vehicle that ‘they’re trying to break the glass,’ likely in response to a less than lethal round that only cracked a window. It is after that event that the additional shooting began. Being able to see into the vehicle is so very very important for law enforcement safety in such a situation. I wouldn’t have wanted to walk up to the vehicle, tap on the glass, and ask politely for it to be rolled down. That there were no penetrating rounds fired into the door panels striking the women tends to support this conclusion.
We might be well served to wait for the final DOJ incident report. Every expended round will be counted, every ejected case will be found, and each bullet possible will be recovered – and all matched to individual weapons. This evidence coupled with audio, video, and officer statements will be used to better understand the sequence of actions leading up to and subsequent, to both the initial vehicle stop and barricade, the shooting, and follow up actions by law enforcement. The fact that local, state, and both FBI Inspection Division and DOJ IG are involved, makes any suppression of facts most unlikely.
I stress we weren’t there at the heat of the moment when hard decisions needed be made. All of us would like to think that we would have done this or done that so much better in order to effect less lethal outcome. Sometimes we are just dealt a bad hand with no good solution – and Finicum was granted his expressed wish.
When passion flares, reason runs. Unbridled anger will lead to ruin more often than not. There is a lesson here for all of us. Irrational behavior on the part of Finicum led to his demise. So that this death might have a modicum of meaning, I pray each of us reflect upon the end result of unbridled anger.
If you will forgive me a brief sermon, I urge each of you to read the epistle of James while contemplating the effect of uncontrolled anger. Unbridled anger however is always destructive. The tongue is a little member but capable of kindling a forest fire of emotion (http://www.victoriouschristianministry.org/Bible%20Studies/Study%2014%20-%20%20The%20Danger%20of%20Unbridled%20Tongue.pdf).
Again, I find the entire event from beginning to end, most chilling.
PR
I really think people who have no clue what is going on should not comment about the Finicum’s. The woman was not his wife and the young girl was not his daughter they were passengers going to a meeting to talk to the sheriff about settling the public sit in at the nature retreat. This was an FBI ambush through and through, the supposed simple traffic stop turned into an assassination. They were shot at during the first stop, in which one man got out of the truck but had been shot at and instead of being sitting ducks, sitting in silence for a long time without any communication from the FBI/OSP Finicum grew more upset thinking they were going to be shot, they were ambushed where Internet service was unavailable or disrupted. Finicum offered occupants to get out of the vehicle but they were scared and got down on the floor while he attempted to get to Sheriff Glenn Palmer for help.
A bullet penetrated the roof of the truck after they swerved the roadblock narrowly avoiding an agent that jumped out at them. After the roof shot and seeing many red lasers on him and the other passengers he got out and yelled just go ahead and shoot me. He was shot in his back 3 times by Oregon State Police. An officer had been just feet away from him with a taser but instead they killed him in cold blood. Of course, we don’t know all the details but rest assured Finicum was not the guilty party in this situation. Ferguson protestors behavior is acceptable but a peaceful protest against government corruption, land grabbing for many years and wrongful imprisonment of 2 ranchers are just some of the reasons they protested peacefully. They may have been angry but they were well within their rights to protect what is theirs. The gov had and still has no rights to these ranchers properties. But no one will listen to them because they aren’t the right color to suit the POTUS and aren’t ganging up and destroying cities.
BLM burning lands near Frenchglen, Oregon. They ended up burning alive 70 cattle and a home and other property, warned not to put out the fire or go to jail. This is just a sample of what they are putting up with all these years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeeclad8G3E&feature=youtu.be&t=3m30s
A Girl –
I appreciate you taking the time to comment at such great length. I am fairly familiar with the Oregon situation, and especially the history of the Bundy’s. Most people just do not realize the history and specifics of the Bundy family and the BLM. Regardless – of course it is everyone’s right to express their opinion on the situation and especially the video.
There is certainly an anti-law enforcement feeling in your comment that hopefully was misinterpreted. I do not believe the law enforcement personnel that day set out to kill anyone nor be killed. I believe Finicum would be alive today if he had not lowered his hand to his side – for whatever reason he lowered his hands.
The comments from “Girl” are spot on. I live in Southern Oregon, surrounded by BLM land, and have been following this situation very closely. Finicum was murdered, it is that simple. They had every intention of killing him and most likely all of them. Remember, no one in the vehicles ever fired a shot, in fact it has been stated that Finicum didn’t own a 9mm, and always carried a .38 revolver, that he purposely left behind that day. The 9mm was a plant, to cover up the murder of an innocent man, who’s only crime was he cared about this country. This was not a justified shooting, regardless of what the investigation proves. The protesters broke no laws, and in fact had uncovered reams of evidence showing years of illegal actions by the BLM against the local ranchers. The feds did not want that evidence exposed.
The BLM was going to get the hammonds ranch, whatever it took. And they succeeded, they now control most of that basin, and have destroyed yet another family. The few that remain live in fear they may be next.
This entire fiasco was a set-up from day one. The Bundy’s group was most likely infiltrated by an agent or agents provacatoure, a plant to stir things up. The plan worked well, except the Bundy group restrained itself, and never threatend anyone, and never fired a shot. The feds needed an “incident” so they could label these fine folks as domestic terrorist, and killing finicum, and locking up the rest, sets the example they were looking for. The Bundy group are political prisoners, dissidents if you will, not terrorist. It is sad that so many dismiss this incident, or buy the prostitute media story and go along with the “official” version. Wake up America, its almost too late.
Damon – we can agree to disagree(on some things). It was a terrible day all around. Regarding Finicum and carrying a revolver – you are correct in that he often carried a revolver. He also often carried a Ruger SR pistol in a shoulder holster under his left arm while the revolver rode on his right hip.
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
I’ve studied all of this going way back exhaustively and usually make it a point to look at things of this nature very hard from the viewpoint opposite of my initial impression. My opinion is that this was a long running a detailed agent provocateur operation, that did not go exactly as planned (the death of all in the vehicle)….still I will look forward to the official reports on this, if they are forthcoming.
In the meantime I am racing this week at the 12 hours of Sebring, on each front fender and the front roof of my car are the words “Remember LaVoy” in black. Regardless of any outcome, I believe he was a good and useful man that should be remembered and mourned. Especially considering the many snotrags in positions of power that are going to take years to forget.
Thanks D. Good luck in your race. Agree about Finicum.
The New American magazine is reporting some new details on this event, and North west liberty news also has some scary new details, I have posted the links below for you to view and decide for yourself. I appreciate everyone posting their opinions on this. I think the more that comes to light, the more disgusted you all will be.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/22773-finicum-shooting-was-bundy-driver-bodyguard-an-fbi-agent-provocateur
http://northwestlibertynews.com/sworn-officers-choose-united-nations-us-constitution-murder-levoy-finicum/
Thanks Damon.
Damon, Glad to see theres another New American reader out there. Lightning